you busy all season? >> there is animals everywhere. north america, top to bottom. >> peter: can aidry yep give us a big wave. >> brian: she'll be back tomorrow. >> gretchen: see you then. bill: you know what that is, martha? martha: what? bill: that's a bear market, folks. claim by an economist who says the national debt which stands just shy of 17 trillion isn't even close to what the government and you the taxpayer really owe. oh joy. martha: fantastic. bill: i'm bill hemmer. welcome to "america's newsroom." martha: and i'm fine. i'm martha maccallum. good morning, everybody. the gentleman who came with this is james hamilton. he is a economics professor at university of california at san diego. and he claims that the true national debt is more like 70 trillion dollars. and that the government has been low balling us for years according to him by keeping

certain debt off the books. bill: with the government on the hook for ious like social security and medicare and pension promises across the country, combined with an aging population, america could be in a whole lot of hurt. charles payne, fox business network. 70 trillion, do you buy that, charles? >> bill, not only do i buy it i think that number is on the low side. bill: the real number could be higher than 70 trillion? how come? >> you hit on it. some unfunded liabilities. medicare is about 50 trillion. social security 20 trillion. we have new entitlements coming online. who will know what the obamacare law will emerge as. ultimately you can see that is a entitlement costing us a lot of money. 30 million people getting health insurance instantaneously. off the books stuff is alarming. economic malaise was triggered when the off-balance sheet stuff at wall street was revealed and

couldn't be contained anymore. we're in that same sort of scenario. bill: you analyze this as a catch 22. in order to pay for it. in order to get out of the hole you need growth, right? >> right. bill: where is that now, charles? >> we're growing 2%. the economy could grow at bigger rate but consumers are afraid, businesses are afraid. a lot of new regulations coming in. the more money we have to apply to take care of the interest alone. that is the catch 22. money could be funneled back into the economy to generate higher great is used to pay this off. this number only gets larger. i don't care where you think the number is, everyone adegrees the number gets larger. bill: look at the numbers from gallup today. this is the president's approval numbers, specifically comes to the economy for life of his presidency now. back in 2009, a whopping 59%. watch where the line has gone ever since. 2013 it is down 35% approval on

the economy. disapproval number you can expect to see this too. back in 2009, it was way low, 30%, charles. look where it has gone before the election of 2012. it hit a peak. today it is at 62%. slightly below the highest number for disapproval. if you go deeper into the numbers now, he lost seven points in the economy last two months. he lost five points on taxes and five points on the federal budget deficit. what does that say to you? >> a large part of our economic success, i don't care who you are or what kind of architecture you use or your political ideology, depends on people buying into it. the american public has to believe, a large part is self-fulfilling. people are not believing. lag jobs report we saw, average weekly wages went down month over month. people are spending money but not saving any money. we're at this point now, overnight, we had bad economic data or earnings report from cisco. macy's's on the high-end.

wal-mart, which is a really great proctor & gamble at this for the economy, they disappointed wall street as well. we're starting to see stuff come together. you have to have economy somewhat booming. people buy into it. that is when you get the virtuous cycle. that is not happening. bill: you have plenty to talk about at 9:20 on fbn. >> thank you, bill. bill: charles payne. martha: obviously the other top story this morning is the crisis in egypt. there are hundreds of muslim brotherhood supporters who poured back into the streets at this hour, even under this imposed state of emergency. more than 500 people is the latest number that we have of reported killed in these clashes between the government forces and the supporters of the former president, mohammed morse system you know the acting vice president, mohammed al baradei has stepped down. he resigned over protest over the brutal crackdown playing out in the streets. state state secretary of state

john kerry says he believes there is a chance for peace. watch. >> i'm convinced that that path is in fact still open and it is possible though it has been made, much, much harder, much more complicated by the events of today. martha: leland vittert joins me live in our mideast bureau in jerusalem. what is the latest on the ground there, leland? >> reporter: martha, the secretary of state thinks this can end peacefully. he is probably only one. neither the army or muslim brotherhood are not backing down. we know at least one government building was ransacked and lit a fire. we're not seeing running street battles we saw yesterday. appears both sides are trying to consolidate power and bury their dead. more than 500 people they will have to bury. a number on the army side and a number on muslim brotherhood in the hail of gunfire yesterday as both sides duked it out with

ak-47s. muslim brotherhood says they are not leaving streets until mohammed morsi is brought back, their elected president. the army says, not a chance of the it is time to move on. martha? martha: what do we think is next for the muslim brotherhood? >> reporter: interesting the army brought back a page out of the 1980s, 1990s playbook, they could arrest anyone and hold them incommunicado and home them for as long as they wanted. that's what we're seeing, a roundup of top leadership of muslim brotherhood. whether or not we see mass arrests and those number of people protesting going to video to trying to find these guys, that is yet to be seen. as we go forward the real test is whether the muslim brotherhood is willing to live up to the promise willing to die rather than leave the streets. the anticipates to that question will probably come most likely tomorrow afternoon. friday afternoon, prayers where things get whipped up, when the most amount of people are in the

mosque. that is when we see this really play out whether cairo and egypt heads down the spiral of almost syria, heading towards civil war or whether calm returns here and army is able to consolidate that power. martha: that's a big if for egypt right now. thank you very much. bill: country of 80 million people. so many of our cameras pick up what is happening in cairo, not the rest of the country. we're watching all of this as best we can. the white house is condemning the violence in that country but senator lindsey graham is saying the obama administration's failures that led to this. here he is. >> from benghazi, to cairo, to damascus, we're, baghdad, we're failing across the board. obama's foreign policy is not working. the middle east is literally in flames and the biggest prize of all is egypt. if we lose egypt, if egypt become as failed, fractured state i just can not imagine what israel's future looks like. bill: senators graham and mccain were in egypt earlier

in the month, a few weeks back? they were trying to negotiate some sort of a peaceful solution to the crisis and figure out a fact-finding mission of their own on the ground in cairo. martha: unbelievable to think of the prospect of a failed state in egypt. so how did we get here? let's go back to the timeline, june 29th, the beginning of the summer, 22 million egyptians sign ad petition and they were not happy with the leadership of mohammed morse system they wanted him to step down. the next day large-scale demonstrations break out, millions of people in the street denouncing morsi's government. july 23rd, the army kicked morsi at of office and detained him and moved him to undisclosed location. yesterday there were reports of 525 people killed, close to 4,000 hurt in the violent crackdown on groups that emerged in the street which was pro-morsi, pro-muslim brotherhood protesters who came out to try to him back into office. it made this one of egypt's

deadliest times ever and it continues today in the streets. bill: we will bring you updates as we get them out of the middle east. meantime the u.s. soldier who leaked classified material to wikileaks says that he is sorry. bradley manning took the stand during a sentencing hearing. he started with an apology saying he is sorry that his actions hurt people and hurt the united states. he also said he understood what he was doing but at the time did not believe leaking the information would cause harm. he faces up to 90 years in prison. martha: how about this story that emerged yesterday afternoon for former illinois congressman jesse jackson, jr. here are the pictures as he went into the courtroom yesterday to get his sentence which turned out to be a 2 1/2 year prison sentence. he pled guilty to misusing $750,000 in campaign funds, mingling those for private expenditures. he did briefly speak afterward. he said that he quote, manned up and tried to accept the

responsibility for his actions. he used money to buy personal items like television and expensive watch. his father, civil rights leader jesse jackson, spoke out shortly after the sentence. >> this has been an extraordinarily difficult time for our family. i speak really today as a father -- out boeing someone else on something i really understood socially or politically but this one of course is home. jesse has been very sick this time a year ago, i really thought we may have lost him. he is strong enough now to accept challenges put before him by the judge. martha: talking about his son in that case and about the bipolar disease that he was diagnosed with. it did not really play a role, the illness, in the proceedings

in the courtroom but there is a lot of discussion about it afterwards when his father came out to speak. his wife, jackson, jr.,'s wife will time on a tax charge. she will spend a year in prison. they're expected to be consecutive because they're parents after 13-year-old and a nine-year-old. that is the stipulation so they can care for their children during this really tough time. bill: 30 months. that is a long time to sit back what you have done wrong and the bad decisions you made. martha: he said that he wanted to do that. he wanted to do the time and serve the time and he had a lost regrets. so a new chapter in his life to be sure. we're just getting started here this morning on this, what is it, thursday morning, right? bill: that it is. martha: that is a scene we showed you if the first moments of yesterday's "america's newsroom." a crash of a cargo plane close to the airport in birmingham, alabama. what the people there saw. we have new information into the investigation what went wrong there this morning. bill: problems are snowballing

with the president's health care law. why it could mean less choice and even fewer jobs in a moment. martha: lawmakers are demanding more answers from suspended irs official lois lerner. was she trying to hide something, or did she have a specific political agenda that led her to use personal emails? >> this is one of those interesting things about people that move around in government. everywhere they go they seem to move an agenda. she certainly seems like she has an agenda against conservatives.

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help the gulf when we made recover and learn the gulf, bp from what happened so we could be a better, safer energy company. i can tell you - safety is at the heart of everything we do. we've added cutting-edge technology, like a new deepwater well cap and a state-of-the-art monitoring center, whe experts watch over all drilling activity twenty-four-seven. and we're sharing what we've learned, so we can all produce energy more safely. our commitment has never been stronger. martha: some of the witnesses are describing what they heard in the final moments before a massive a300 cargo plane crashed in birmingham, alabama, yesterday morning taking the lives of the pilot and copie let -- could pilot. residents said they heard it coming in at low level and the wreckage scattered everywhere. >> we saw the back deck part of it was down.

trees was down on both sides of the house. debris was all over the back porch with the ramp and half of it is gone. martha: terrifying morning for all of those neighbors out there. a preliminary investigation indicates that the pilots did not make any distress call from that plane. bill: wonder what happened? so the problems with obamacare could be snowballing in august. "the wall street journal" is reporting that many insurers are set to limit your choice of doctors and hospitals we're getting reports of employers cutting back on workers hours. dr. marc siegel, fox news medical a-team. professor of medicine, nyu langone medical center in new york and stephen moore, senior writer for "wall street journal." we brought you both on. there is medical side and economics side as well. mark, start off. what is it about the limitation of doctors and hospitals and choices? >> bill, it is looking like the

health care exchanges, the state exchanges, if they ever even get going are going to be a problem in terms of having mainly hmo-style insurance. mackenzie report says it looks like half of them will have hmo-style. what is hmo-style? that is widely unpopular insurance since the 1990s, that restricts your choices dramatically. the idea is to keep down premiums. the idea to use limited networks of doctor the doctor you might be using may not take insurances. hospital you use may be shut out entirely. in california, it doesn't look like ucla will not participating. in illinois, northwestern looks like it may be shut out. even if i'm accepting some of insurance, the or the peaist i'm used to referring or gynecologist, might not. bill: doing it since the 1990's, and in your words they have been failing? >> as a matter of fact, people who use employer insurance, only 16% choose an hmo style

insurance. only 16% because of the reasons i'm saying. you don't get to keep your doctor. you don't get to keep the network of doctors. i call it chevy style insurance. why chevy? everyone like as chevy. nothing wrong with a chevy. you can put on bigger tires, get a nicer paint job. it is still a chevy. you don't have the kind of options for health care you really need if you're really sick. too limited with restrictions and can't get to your doctor. bill: steve, we talked about how worker hours are being cut back and it is costing jobs. now nbc is out there and went across the country and found 20 different businesses that are doing the same thing. so more people are picking up on this now. what do we need to understand about it? >> that's right. let me go back to a point marc made and so important and infuriating. you called it the chevy plan american people are getting. i call it the pinto plan. a lot of people will be so restricted on choice. and what makes me so angry about

that story, bill, we just reported last week members of congress and their staff are going to get the keep the plan they have. they get the cadillac and we get stuck with the point toe. i'm not so sure that is fair. bill: pinto is out of business, right? they don't make it anymore. >> exactly. now on your point about employers cutting back, you're seeing this throughout the economy in terms of hours worked and number of employees that stores are hiring. if you look at the last employment report, bill, two major employers. over half of new jobs created in july in this country were fast-food joints, restaurants, bars or retail. >> service industry. >> right, those are low-paying jobs. those are exactly kind of employers cutting back on their hours of work that they're offering -- bill: steve, the white house asked about this. they say it is anecdotal and dismissed it. what would you say? >> first of all certainly is anecdotal because i talk to a

lot of employers, people that own burger kings and mcdonald's and wendy's. they told me they cut back on hours. we saw this data in the last employment report. we saw this in the last employment report. this is not just anecdotal. the number of hours worked last month actually fell again, bill. we're turning into part-time, kind of a part-time nation and the reason for that is the obamacare law encourages people, employers to stay below 50 workers and stay below 30 hours a week. bill: listen, there's a lot to talk on this gentlemen, the medical side and business side. we have breaking news. marc siegel, thank you and stephen moore. what do we have? >> martha: we're getting word the president will make a statement, we understand it is a taped statement on the situation in egypt. that situation will come from martha's vineyard this morning. we suspect it will come somewhere within an hour of now. supporters of egypt's ousted president have set fire to

government buildings in cairo's twin city. so a lot of violence continues today on the ground in cairo. yesterday we heard from secretary of state john kerry. today we'll hear from the president within the hour. bill: certainly deserves attention. we'll bring that to you when we get it. meanwhile the troubled clinton foundation faces questions over bookkeeping. multimillion-dollar debt is raising questions as hillary clinton emerges as potential contend fore2016. martha: interesting story we'll talk about with the panel. interesting video with encounter with one of nature's most elusive creatures. this cat, how cute, not camera shy. in an unusual place i would say. ♪ ♪

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bill: back to this breaking news. this is a day after 500 people reportedly dead in the streets of egypt. president obama will make a statement. we expect it around 10:15 eastern time. as you know he is on a family vacation, martha's vineyard, massachusetts. the violence continues to ripple across the country of '80 million people. they're reaching the brink yet again in egypt. we'll see what the president has to say about this. we'll have the statement next hour. martha: while we wait for that. we're back to this story we haven't talked about in a while. fox news is confirming three more weapons from the botched gun-running federal operation, known as "fast & furious" have now been recovered at crime scenes in mexico. steve send sunny is live in washington. what do we have about the newly recovered guns, steve. >> reporter: they were romanian

made rifles sold at an arizona gun shop to two different people. we don't know what crime scenes they're linked to. they were purchased two years ago at the lone wolf gun shop in glendale, arizona. they were found at crime scenes in mexico. tracing documents from the bureau of alcohol tobacco and firearms show the guns were bought in 2010. they were part of the "fast & furious" program which encouraged gun shops to sell specific weapons to drug cartels in hopes of tracking them. the sales took place. the tracking did not. two of the weapons were sold to patina who believed to purchase 700 weapons as part of "fast & furious." the other bought by sean steward, convicted of weapons charges in 2012. we don't know the exact locations where the guns were recovered, martha. martha: there was ongoing investigation into "fast & furious" by the administration. how is that going? >> reporter: the house oversight committee is suing for documents

related to the program. the attorney general was cited in contempt for failing to hand them over. all this came to light after the murder. december 2010 after the murder of border agent brian terry. he was shot and killed by illegal immigrants smuggling drugs into the u.s. the "fast & furious" program was shut down after details of death of terry were made public. martha: steve, thank you very much. bill: apparently this was not a joke in missouri in the end. there is more fallout over this rodeo clown. he wore a president obama mask. the head of the rodeo association will no longer have a job. the clown will not have a job. now a day job as school superintendent might be in jeopardy. we can not make this up. martha: goings-on and on. plus it is being called the largest wildfire in the state's history. the race against time to save hundreds of homes from advancing flames. people wonder if they will have a home to return to or not.

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martha: a very interesting new report has surfaced that suggests all kind of things from, you know, potential kickbacks or sweetheart deals or even fraud is suggested at the

clinton foundation okay? so amid the early 2016 election buzz that surrounds hillary clinton all of this hit the front page of none other than than "the new york times" that points to possible golden parachutes for some of the organization's biggest donors and concerns about the finances. the report claims that was printed in "the new york times" that the foundation brought in $214 million in revenues. they do a ton of fund-raising with this organization but that they are running an 8 million-dollar deficit. so that makes you wonder right there. the deficit is actually an improvement though from a few years back. in '07 and '08, they lost a lot more money than that. they claim it was during the election period and that may have had something to do with it. let's talk about what is going on here. doug schoen, former pollster to president bill clinton and monica crowley, radio talk show host and both fox news contributors and barely need introduction. we see them all the time. hi, guys. interesting, this rather long story that really digs into the

finances of the clinton foundation has surfaced on "the new york times," monica. what do you make of that alone? >> because of the obama years, all the drama that always swirled around the clintons recede into the background. now that she is clearly running for president in 2016 all of that clinton drama is back on the front burner. very interesting to read this piece and it was long and exhaustively researched into the clinton foundation which will be nerve center for hillary clinton as she ramps for the presidential campaign. when you look at this, you see the same old pattern of very kind of messy dealings with the clintons. you see profound conflicts of interest. you see shadowy dealings and messy financials. this is all the stuff that has been with them since the arkansas days and since they were in the white house. martha: let's lay this out for everybody who may or may not have read the article. doug, i want to get you to weigh in on it and you done work for the clinton foundation, unpaid.

apparently everyone else is getting paid you. >> to get on that, doug. martha: close advisor to president clinton, the brains behind the clinton global initiative which is the big glitzy conference that happens every year and involved in the clinton foundation and involved in the work they done. they raised tons and tons of money. you remember ira magaziner, that came in from hillary's health care plan that failed in the early days of the clinton administration. the suggestion in this piece, doug, there is a ton of money being brought in and ton of money wasted. ira magaziner is wastes a ton of money flying people all over the world for projects that never come to fruition. it to lay this out, a offshoot company which raises tons of money and corporate consulting firm. brings on clients at $125,000 a month to consult them. then they end up on the dais at these clinton foundation things and a little bit of sneaky stuff

going on there. is there? >> first is there waste and mismanagement? i think they brought in the law firm, simpson thatcher to review the activities of the foundation. they found that in fact there was streamlining that could be done. i hope that happens. as somebody who raises money for the foundation, how could you be anything but pleased? and the fact that prominent corporate executives sit on a dais with bill clinton and they hire a consulting firm, there was no showing in the article of any impropriety. i've having gone on trips for foundation and seen the work, they do unique work around the world. i haven't seen any impropriety, not seen any kickbacks. if it happened it shouldn't and i think it is uniquely valuable foundation. martha: i suspect, on the front page. anybody working for clint clint in 2016 is trying to make sure every single duck is in the row, right? >> how damaging could this be to possible presidential run and i

do believe she is runing? i believe you saw this on "the new york times." not because "the new york times" somehow wants to hurt hillary clinton's chances but to help her. in other words they're trying to get negative stuff out early so they can claim it is all covered and old news by the time she announces. secondly, and this is really important point. well, if there are dirty dealings going on at the clinton foundation it was all going on before she joined. remember her name was just plastered on the title of the foundation. they could say it was all going on before she came on board. martha: very interesting. >> and she is there to help clean it up. martha: that is very interesting assessment because it makes very clear, under bill clinton alone, stuff was going on in terms of messiness and disorganization at the very least as you say. and that now hillary and chelsea are both involved it is sort after new day. >> i think it is monica is write to the extent this will be a turn-around story. i think donors, i certainly recruit ad bunch, will only applaud a streamlining and

making more effective of a foundation that has ability to go anywhere in the world, africa, europe, central asia and make a difference on public health, education, clean water. hugely beneficial, hillary, you're right, monica, wasn't there when these allegations of mismanagement occurred. if the foundation turns around and could be a plus should she run. >> the only way this will be really damaging to her it jogs people's memories how messy the clintons are and baggage and drama they constantly bring with them. martha: we'll see and talk about it more i'm sure. bill? bill: thank you, martha. prince william makes his first official public appearance since the birth of his son. young george. flying his military helicopter during training there and had thoughts, initial thoughts on fatherhood. >> she and george would have loved to have been here. he is pretty loud and of course extremely good-looking. [laughter] i have to say i thought

search-and-rescue duties were physically and mentally demanding but looking after a three-week old baby is right up there. bill: he is right about that, huh? prince william's tour of duty comes to an end the end of the month where he will immediately come home and change diapers. martha: which he did within the first 24 hours like most dads do. bill: i want to see pictures. martha: bill is getting antsy. where are the pictures? where are the pictures. she said she would tweet pictures from the phone of the baby. bill: been a month or three weeks? what has it been? we saw like his nose popping out. martha: july 22nd, so not quite a month. bill: come on george. martha: bill wants to see you. a person from a popular reality tv show is found dead. troubling new details about what happened there. bill: also lois lerner may have pled the fifth in that irs scandal but now lawmakers have one simple question for her. why was she using private email for public business?

>> you don't get to tell your side of the story and then not be subjected to cross-examination. that's not the way it works. she waived her right to fifth amendment privilege by issuing an opening statement. she ought to stand here and answer our questions. since 2001 caroline penry's used olay total effects. and after 1 wedding, 2 kids, 43 bottles of total effects, and many birthdays, still looks amazing. now add a boost with new olay moisturizer plus serum. backflips and cartwheels.mile? love, warmth. here, try this. backflips and camm, ok!s.mile? ching! i like the fact that there's lots of different tastes going on. mmmm! breakfast i'm very impressed. this is a great cereal! honey bunches of oats. i hear you crunching.

martha: there's some new fall wrote over this whole rodeo clown issue. he mocked president obama at the missouri state fair. the rodeo announcer of the event stepping down of the missouri association and he was blindsided by the skit and he should be fired. this has shaken up the entire community this issue. the school civil is now investigating him for any inappropriate behavior at the fair. now we're hearing that the naacp is asking the secret service to investigate the clown for possibly inciting violence against the president. has all of this gone way too far

and should somebody step in and say enough is enough. who might that somebody be? we'll debate that fair and balanced coming up. bill: the clough question. martha: the clown issue. bill: new questions for the irs official lois lerner. she took the fifth before congress. congressman darrell issa asking why she use ad personal email account to conduct official government business? here he is on "hannity" talking about that. >> when she see she circumvented the official mail in private, i hate to call it private, but using non-government email accounts for government-type business or communications with other individuals in agencies such as the fec or the sec, it raises concerns about what she was really up to. bill: jay sekulow, chief counsel for the american center of law and justice representing some groups targeted by the irs. jay, good morning to you and welcome become here. >> good morning, bill. bill: what does this mean? >> well it is another troubling

development in a series of troubling developments. the explanation which we've not received yet but i'm trying to, practicing law a long time, why would you send government information from your government e-mail account to your personal e-mail account? well, here's one reason why. if a freedom of information act request was filed on your government accounts, then you had stuff on your, other emails going to your private accounts, those private email accounts would not be covered necessarily within the scope of that foia request. the other aspect of this is, was information, taxpayer information, sent from her government account, sent to her private email account? what did she do with that information? where did she send it? she claimed the fifth amendment. i'm really of the view right now, give lois lerner immunity and we'll find out who was really running this. i think, obviously she had significant influence and significant engagement but there's a lot more here and fec allegation now with information-sharing between the fec --

bill: let me get to that in a moment. who would give her immunity? >> 2 would have to come from darrell issa's committee. she has claimed the fifth amendment. so she's, whether that was valid or not is a legal question but she has asserted fifth amendment privilege not to incriminate herself. by the way completely understandable in light of everything that has come out. it would come from darrell issa's committee if they were so inclined and that would allow her to speak more freely without the risk of prosecution. bill: if you can prove she was using this personal e-mail account, this may go with some of the evidence you're trying to get out, was she hiding something? >> right. well, it sure looks that way. i mean, just if you follow the trail of information, if in fact emails and taxpayer documents are being forwarded from her government account to her personal account, that's a violation of the rules and the law. if she then takes that information and shares it from her personal account to other people that's criminal. this is very, very, serious. i mean this whole idea that a

government bureaucrat or here a government department head would take information off their government account, move it to their personal account, it is a really simple question, why would you do that? the only plausible explanation is, she is probably sharing that information with someone else and she didn't want it to be part of as i said freedom of information act request. maybe she has hopefully a better answer than that. but someone will have to respond to this. she is claiming the fifth again. that is one of the reasons i look at that immunity. >> we went out and asked americans about the whole phony scandal bit. look at the bottom of your screen here, with regard to the irs. it is 59% believe it is serious and not phony. and i, just wonder where this thing's going now that you have personal e-mails that you're after. and, where would it not have gone, had you not uncovered that? >> well, let me tell you about the phony scandal. it was interesting, the poll results there. but i've got a motion from the united states department of justice, bill, in

the ongoing case, where they have said that they need an extension of time upon which they could respond to our lawsuit, which is normal in these kind of complex cases. in it they say they have an ongoing criminal investigation conducted by the fbi against the irs, and irs personnel. now, if it was a phony scandal, you wouldn't expect fbi investigation. now, granted, none of my clients have been contacted but assuming they're doing it at least internal review before they get to the victims, that's not phony. it was eric holder who said there was potential criminal investigations and criminal charges here. so this idea that they're trying to make this a phony scandal, i can not amend the lawsuit quick enough to keep up with the changing facts as each week new revelations come forward. so i think is probably one of the most, look, benghazi we lost american lives and that scandal situation is just in a whole different level in my view but this irs scandal from purely governmental standpoint is the most significant we've seen

since maybe watergate. bill: wow. to be continued jay. thank you for your time out of tennessee. >> thanks for having me, bill. bill: to our viewers at home, hemmer@foxnews.com is email. follow me on twitter @billhemmer. if you want to talk with me about anything on your mind. bya. lines are open right now. martha. martha: how about this, the controversy surrounding the rollout of obamacare is continuing today. we're now getting a new glimpse of the biggest concerns that american people have over the new law. pollster frank luntz joins us with some really interesting answers to questions that people gave. bill: also we'll get back to this story too in arizona. a new response, a new response now, to the family of 13 fallen firefighters. why the local government says they can not and will not give full family benefits. as the widows say they will not give up their fight. >> certain city officials are making it difficult at the beginning made it sound we will

be there. he. we will do everything we can. you will be taken care of. they have stopped saying those things. they made it very contentious. they made nasty comments and uncompassionate and unprofessional. [ male announcer ] house rule number 14. a great cup of coffee should be easy as one, two... well, just one. new single serve cafe collections from maxwell house now available for use in the keurig k-cup brewer. always good to the last drop.

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i'm gonna call. i'm calling. i'm calling. i'm calling. call today and make the switch to the aarp auto insurance program from the hartford. why wait? bill: we have new reaction from the city proves cot, arizona, to a request to give full benefits to the families of 13 seasonal firefighters who died in the line of duty. the city now says that was not only illegal but unaffordable. saying it would amount to $50 million over 60 years and lead to cuts in vital services. listen. >> that is roughly three times of the cost of the entire prescott fire department. financially they're pretty much, tremendous tax increase or

massive layoffs and cuts to services that would impact everybody in prescott. as much as we would like to, it is really not feasible or legally possible. bill: you remember 19 firefighters losing their lives fighting a fire fire. they were 1 six full-time employees. one of the widows is pleading for benefits that the full-time firefighters will get and she vows not to stop. martha: got some tragic new information in the sudden death of a former reality tv star. gia allemand, is dead after a apparent suicide. she was a contestant on the bachelor. she was taken off life-support yesterday. sad story. julie banderas is live in the new york city newsroom. do we know anything about what happened or what led to this,

julie? >> reporter: they are not commenting on specifics but they have confirmed her death was a suicide. this comes as a complete to batchelor fans especially those that appeared with her on the dating show, "the bachelor" and the spin-off. she was a fan favorite and. loveable model and actress was found unconscious on tuesday by her nba boyfriend, and new orleans pelley can power forward ryan anderson. she was transported to the hospital in critical condition. she remained on life-support and died the next day. according to her publicist was taken off life-support after suffering critical loss of brain and organ function and died with her mother, boyfriend and lifelong friends by her side. in a statement her boy trend said thanks for all the love and support. he said, quote, gia was the most beautiful person i knew inside and out. she made everyone else around her smile. she had an amazing impact on my

life and everyone that knew her was blessed. she was survived by her mother. martha: what a sad story. one of the contestants everyone seemed to like. the show, have they responded in any way to all of this? >> reporter: "the bachelor" creator said the entire batchelor family is saddened by our passing of our friend gia. she was truly a sweet and soul. jake pavelka he tweeted this. she was one. sweetest people i ever known. funeral a arrangements are pending. certainly a shock though to a lot of fans out there. martha: always a terrible shock when a young person takes her life like that. julie. thank you very much. bill: president obama will address the latest violence in egypt in a matter of moments. what happens if that country collapses yet again? ambassador john bolton will analyze next. martha: we've got hundreds of homes that are under threat right now and in one of the

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martha: we are back, and president obama is set to make a statement on the increasing chaos in egypt as hundreds of supporters of ousted president mohamed morsi have stormed the government buildings in cairo now, and the military is imposing a monthlong state of emergency. welcome to a brand new hour of "america's newsroom," i'm martha maccallum. bill: i'm bill hemmer. the administration has strongly condemned the violence that has left 500 people dead just yesterday. our senior white house foreign affairs correspondent be, wendell goler, live in parr this' vineyard -- martha's vineyard, massachusetts. the president on vacation with his family there. >> reporter: a condemnation and a call for both sides to

show restraint, for the military to stop attacks on unarmed civilians and for supporters of ousted president morsi to stop torching churches and government buildings. officials say it is clear the situation in egypt is getting worse, but they are afraid they wouldn't have any influence at all if they acknowledged the military takeover was a coup and trigger a u.s. law that would require them to cut off aid, and they may cancel a joint military exercise. bill: what have we been doing about the violence, wendell? >> reporter: well, he's being briefed, as aides say, by national security adviser susan rice who is here with him and his senior diplomatic and military advisers are in contact with their egyptian counterparts and other countries in the region. they're trying to convince the egyptian military to make good on its promise to quickly transition to a civilian government, but the president's spokesman said it's also clear that the egyptians are going to have to do this on their own.

>> this is something that egyptians are going to have to resolve, and what we're hopeful is that we're going to have an egyptian government that actually does reflect the will of the egyptian people. that's what we see egyptians all across the country demanding, they're demanding an inclusive process, they're demanding a basic respect for human rights, and they're demanding a democratically-elected civilian government. >> reporter: yesterday was by far deadliest since the uprising that topped hosni mubarak back in 2011. bill: we await that statement, martha has more on this now. martha: let's bring in ambassador john bolton, former u.s. board to the united nations and a -- ambassador to the united nation and a fox news contributor. welcome, good to have you here this morning. we do expect the president coto come out and speak, and the early word we're getting is he will give guidance for a planned military exercise that was going

to be underway called bright star with the united states and egyptian military. what do you expect he's going to say on that? >> well, i don't know. the president's statement's likely to be completely incoherent which would be right in line with its policy on egypt for the last two and a half years. look, you can't have your press secretary say, as we just saw him say, that this is up for egyptians to answer and then try and get the in the middle of it. what we should do, what we should have done from the beginning is define not what we think a platonic form of government in egypt would look like, but define what american interests are. i think they're two; upholding the camp david peace agreement with israel and keeping the suez can canal up. open. and from that flow the policies that america should follow. martha: very interesting. so that's what you would recommend the president do, to stand up and to talk about the camp david peace accord, the

significance of that, how it really determined the future of american middle east foreign policy and that it is the most significant element to our ally israel, right? >> well, i'm not sure i would have the president be saying much at all here. martha: okay. >> the issue is what american interests are and, therefore, how we protect american interests. and this notion that somehow that a little bit more discussion between the military and the muslim brotherhood would bring sweetness and light to egypt is completely wrong. the muslim brotherhood is not a political party as we understand that term in the united states. it's an armed militia. it's what justice jackson said in a context of the communist party here, the muslim brotherhood is a state within a state. it wanted that confrontation yesterday. in its twisted view of the world, having more martyrs increases its legitimacy, increases its appeal. and let's be be clear, the military having twice in the

past half century cracked down on the muslim brotherhood is more than happy to oblige. what's going on in egypt now is a raw struggle for political power. and our giving them advice about how to resolve it's going to have no impact. if anything, the incoherence of our policy simply tells the parties in egypt that we're irrelevant. we've got to come back to what our basic interests are, and i think that means that what we need is a stable government. right now that means the egyptian military, ugly as it may be. martha: i mean, you basically made this call in the early days of the arab spring, that the military leadership in egypt, flawed as it clearly was, was going to be a better partner to deal with given the u.s. interests than the muslim brotherhood, certainly. my question is with the suez canal at this point, you know, the need to protect that and the possibility that has been raised a couple of times in discussions i've had over the last couple of days that that might be a

flashpoint be, what would you, what would you do to prevent any problem there? >> well, i think continue support for the military. i mean, i think there are at least some elements of the muslim brotherhood that understand that if they close the canal, the already-collapsing egyptian economy would be essentially finished. but in a time of strife, even more extreme elements -- al-qaeda or other terrorists, spin-offs of the brotherhood -- might think severely damaging the weak european and american economies, which is what would happen if the canal closed, might be worth the pain to egypt as well. you've already got the sinai peninsula since the fall of mubarak turning into a transit route for terrorists and people smuggling weapons and threatening israel. the situation is deteriorating. the muslim brotherhood is not going to bring stability. the muslim brotherhood is going to make things worse. that's a fact. the muslim brotherhood

assassinated anwar sadat in 1981 because he negotiated the camp david agreement, and they have not changed their view since then. martha: excellent points. john bolton, always a pleasure. thank you, sir. >> thank you, martha. bill: want to take you out to utah. there's a race against time in that state, and we are watching the large wildfire in that state's history. at least 14 homes destroyed, more than 200 others now in danger. and many residents still under an evacuation order there, not knowing whether or not they will have a home to return to in the end. >> we're watching it right now from a distance. it's pretty sad. we're just sitting here waiting and see what happens and just continue to watch it. bill: utah's wildfire is just one of 44 raging across 31 different states -- 11 different states now. that covers alaska to arizona. since the beginning of the wildfire season back in january, 31,000 fires have burned destroying more than three million acres.

martha: and a storm-ravaged town in colorado gets slammed with yet another round of extreme weather. heavy rain and hail is now targeting manitou springs area, and it's recovering from major flooding and mudslides that santorum that area just last week. rough, rough summer for the folks in that area in colorado. and and you may remember the waldo canyon fire that hit this same area last year left it vulnerable to flooding. fortunately, this time around the storms did move through quickly, no major damage reported, but, boy, they are looking for a break. bill: republican rising stars taking center stage today at the annual rnc summer meeting in boston, massachusetts. yesterday it was about the party message, and newt gingrich warning his fellow republicans to focus on ideas and not attacks. >> we are caught up right now in a culture, and you see it every single day, where as long as we're negativing and as long as

we're vicious and as long as we can tear down our opponent, we don't have to learn anything. and so we don't. this is a very deep problem, and i'm being totally candid with you. bill: so molly line being candid with us live in boston. good morning there. >> reporter: good morning, bill. this is day two here of the rnc near boston, the republicans gathering here today. there's a luncheon this afternoon that new jersey governor chris christie will be headlining, and then they move on to highlighting, as you mentioned, their rising stars in the party, some of these new voices in the town hall meetings. they're really working towards expanding the party in the future. bill? bill: molly, the meet-up gives republicans a chance to talk about some of their toughest challenges. and when they put that list together, what's on it? >> reporter: yeah. you know, this is really a business meeting, and some of the toughest challenges that the republicans say they're facing and that have caused strife

within the party, for instance, immigration one of the issues and also expanding the party, reaching out more to minority communities, to women and to the youth all across america. here's license priebus talking about -- reince priebus talking about all their efforts that are underway. >> it takes time. obviously, you have to work very hard on the ground. in our particular case, i have to focus on the things that i most control, and that's why i'm focusing in on our ground game, on our digital and data program. >> reporter: certainly, the rnc planning to highlight their technology initiatives at this meeting as well. bill: molly line watching all that live in boston, massachusetts. thank you. martha: the dow is down, it is up about 215 points right now, the concern on wall street seems to be corporate profits and rising interest rates. you had walmart curbing their full-year outlook yesterday. that brought us the worst day that we've seen since june in the market. today looks no better, down

about 212 right now for the dow jones industrials. still early in the day but not off to a good start so far. bill: had a nice day yesterday. apple's been running off like a crazy horse outs there, but, i mean, when walmart miss -- martha: that's a problem. bill: bigtime. a new bombshell for the justice department, guns for the fast and furious gun-running sting turn up at yet another crime scene in mexico. martha: and it seems that more and more americans are concerned about the coming health care law and what impact it's going to actually have on their lives x., of course, on their wallets as well. so we've got some very interesting new poll numbers and what they could mean for the future of this law. bill: and this story just keeps on going. the naacp is calling on the secret service to investigate a rodeo clown. ♪ send in the clowns [ male announcer ] running out of steam?

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bill: major scare at an amusement par, brooklyn, new york, a 5-year-old falls out after moving roller -- out of a moving roller coaster. the sea serpent roller coaster at coney island, the boy may have been trying to climb out before the ride was over, and the park owner says it's the fist accident in 15 years for this ride. the boy's expected to be okay. martha: can you imagine how scary that was? gosh. all right, he's something some folks find scary as well. a number of americans are growing more concerned about what the real impact on their lives is going to be from obamacare. so according to a poll, this is

by the u.s. chamber of commerce, these numbers, they said, you know, what will be the impact of this. and 79% said that it will make your health care more expensive. look at that, only 17% think that it's going to have little impact, and 4% say that it will ultimately make health care more affordable. those numbers are upside down from where the president initially thought they would be and when this bill was sold to the american people. frank luntz is a pollster and a fox news contributor. frank, welcome back. good to see you. what do you make of that number? >> nice to see you. that's the reason you still have a majority of americans who oppose this legislation. if you take a look at all the significant bills over the last 50 years, and health care's one of them, as you measure the change in public opinion, it usually takes just months, a majority of the public who may be hostile to that legislation when it originally passed such as the civil rights act or the voting rights act or medicare,

medicaid, over time the public tends to come in favor of it. not with this health care bill x that's because the number one reason why the public is concerned, they think it's going to be more money out of their own pocket, and they don't know that they're going to the get better quality for that additional cost. martha: yeah. i mean, they know they were promised that they could keep their doctor if they liked their doctor, keep their plan if they liked their plan. you know, you don't have to go far to ask people about it to get folks to say they're concerned about whether or not that's actually the case. and we also know the impact on small businesses and the choices that they're making about their future, that ripples all the way through the economy in terms of hiring. let's take a look at this next one. you've got -- the question was asked what's the biggest challenge that faces small business owners, and you'll notice these numbers add up to a lot more than 100%, so these were sort of pulled from different parts of the ross in asking people what their -- process in asking people what their big concern was, but 49% say it's the 2010 health care bill that really is concerning

them, and it's having an impact on decisions they make, right? >> well, there's tremendous doubt and anxiety with small business about the direction of the economy. and when you add to it that they cannot control their costs, that causes people not to hire individuals. we've asked the question if you get a letter at home, what are you going to open first from a number of different sources? the number one is the irs, but the number two is from their health care provider. so this is something that the american people are following very carefully, and small business is absolutely glued to it. because for them it is not just the cost, even though that's the number one issue. who do they have to provide health care to, how extensive must that health care be, how expensive will it be if they do this so-called cadillac plan versus smaller plans? and they don't even kno if their employees are going to be satisfied with the health care they receive. there are many more questions today, and this is now three years into the process. there are more questions to the, martha, than even a year ago,

and the administration instead of answering them keeps pushing it back further and further because i think they've realized that what they promised the american people is not what they're going to be able to deliver. martha: and we know that they delayed it for a year for businesses because they're trying to sort some of this out. let's take a look at this next number, because it goes directly to what you were just talking about. 61% of small businesses, 61%, say they have no plans to do any hiring next year. that's a big number. >> and that's -- it's a big number, and the reason for that, when they asked the question what is the cost for that -- the cause for that, it is the cost such as government mandates for health care. and i want to make this one point. the republicans tried to tie health care to the economy because of numbers like that. in fact, for the american people it isn't jobs. it is for small business, but for the public if question is will i pay more and actually get less quality, less choice and

more bureaucracy? and we have been having this debate now for the four years, and still the american people are anxious, nervous and in some cases angry about washington, what washington is doing to them. not for them, to them on health care. martha: you said a moment ago, when the letter comes in the mail, the first thing people open is the irs, it's a nerve-wracking moment when you see that in the upper corner of your envelope. now you've got the irs role in health care and in terms of executing this health care land and going through the irs to figure out who's got a health care plan and who doesn't, look at this number. 57% of americans say they have little or no trust in the irs' ability to enforce the health care law, frank. >> well, the one that i love, and it's something we did several years ago, is that more people would rather have their wallet or purse stolen than audited by the irs. basically, they're saying they'd

rather get mugged than audited because it's like a mugging. martha: i'll take the mugging. >> most people would. so now combine that, combine the fear of the irs with the anxiety of not knowing about health care, and you've got the perfect crisis, the perfect storm. and the strategy is that a lot of americans are now losing sleep over what this health care legislation means to them. martha: and you know all that anxiety and nervousness, it goes into everything. into the way you live your life and what your plans are for the future and all of that. frank, really interesting numbers and a great way of pulling them all together here. thank you so much. we'll see you soon. >> you got it, thank you. bill: want to get back to the fox news alert now because there will be a statement from the president any moment about what's happening on the ground in cairo, and scenes like these have been all too common last week. just yesterday alone reports of more than 500 killed in the streets of cairo and alexandria and the other places where, frankly, our cameras cannot get

in that country of 80 million. the military with another crackdown on support us of mohamed morsi who's the ousted president now. and this is a country on the brink yet again. the second time now in two and a half years. secretary of state john kerry yesterday saying that the army, now in charge, has to respect the democratic process. we can expect a similar theme from the president. we expect be a statement any moment now out of martha's vineyard. when that happens, we bring it to you. real quick here, let's get a break many here, back in two minutes on "america's newsroom." [ bottle ] okay, listen up!

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national security correspondent jennifer griffin's on that at the pentagon. i thought walter reed, jennifer, had improved its facility since moving out into bethesda. >> reporter: we did too, bill,

but fox news has learned the military decided to invalidate meal tickets ask reduce the hours that the warrior café, the sole dining facility in walter reed's building 62 which is where all the multiple amputees and long-term recovering patients live. the decision, which was announced at a town hall meeting last thursday, would affect sergeant josh wets el, a down l amputee, and about 160 other families who spend up to two years in building 62: they were told their meal tickets would no longer be valid, and they would have to walk or wheel themselves nearly a half mile to the temporary food trailer for breakfast, runs -- lunch and dinner. bill: any response from pentagon officials? any explanation as to why they did this, jennifer? >> reporter: well, we haven't had any response be yet. we interviewed the sergeant who is going to be affected by the decision. here is what he said. >> building 62, i would say it's

close to half a mile from building 62 to the nex which is just right across the road is a half a mile, so it's around there. and for guys, you know, that don't have legs that are, you know, new on their prosthetics or in a wheelchair even, that's a long distance to go. >> reporter: the warrior café is a central meeting point for these amputees. it gives them a sense of independence, they can just wheel down the hall to the warrior café. closing it on the weekends really leaves these guys vulnerable, and their families have spokesspoken out. and what really bothers them is that these trailers aren't even very handicap accessible. here's sergeant wetzel. >> the galley, you know, it's, it's, quote-unquote, handicap accessible, but for guys that have serious mobility injuries like, you know, they don't -- they're not able to to use their hands that whale and stuff like

that -- well and stuff like that, it's tough for them to get in the doors. >> reporter: late wednesday the pentagon said they may reconsider their decision. we still haven't seen any official statements on that. bill: we'll wait for word on that. jennifer griffin at the pentagon for us. martha: as we mentioned, we're waiting for a statement from martha's vineyard from the president. we expect we're going to get it in less than two minutes, in the meantime, we want to bring back in john bolton, former ambassador to the united nations, and one of the things we mentioned briefly, ambassador bolton, was this bright star military exercise which has been on and off is and was started in the '80s -- we're going to hold it right there, the president. let's listen. >> an update about our response to the events of the last several days. let me begin by stepping back for a moment. the relationship between the united states and egypt goes back decades. it's rooted in our respect of egypt as a nation, an ancient center of civilization and a

cornerstone for peace in the middle east. it's also rooted in our ties to the egyptian people. forged through a long item standing partnership -- longstanding partnership. just over two years ago america was inspired by the egyptian people's desire for change. as millions of egyptians took to the streets to their dignity and demand a government that was responsive to their aspirations for political flee.com and economic opportunity. -- freedom and economic opportunity. and we said at the time the change would not come quickly or easily, but we did align ourselves with a set of principles; nonviolence, a respect for universal rights and a process for political and economic reform. in doing so, we were guided by values but also by interests, because we believe nations are more stable and more successful when they're guided by those principles as well.

and that's why we're so concerned by recent events. we appreciate the complexity of the situation. while mohamed morsi was elected president in a democratic election, his government was not inclusive and did not respect the views of all egyptians. we know that many egyptians, millions of egyptians, perhaps even a majority of egyptians were calling for a change in course. and while we do not believe that force is the way to resolve political differences, after the military's intervention several weeks ago, there remained a chance for reconciliation and an opportunity to pursue a democratic path. instead, we've seen a more dangerous path taken through arbitrary arrests, a broad crackdown on mr. morsi's associations and supporters and now, tragically, violence that's

taken the lives of hundreds of people and wounded thousands more. be the united states strongly condemns the steps that have been taken by egypt's interim government and security forces. we deplore violence against civilians. we support universal rights essential to human dignity including the right to peaceful protest. we oppose the pursuit of martial law which denies those rights to citizens under the principle that security trumps individual freedom. or that might makes right. and today the united states extends its condolences to the families of those who were killed and those who were wounded. given the depths of our partnership with egypt, our national security interests in this part of the world and our belief that engagement can support a transition back to a democratically-elected civilian

government, we've sustained our commitment to egypt and its people. but while we want to sustain our relationship we egypt, our parisianal cooperation -- traditional cooperation cannot continue as usual when civilians are being killed in the sprees and rights are being rolled back. as a result, this morning we notified the egyptian government that we are canceling our biannual joint military exercise. going forward, i've asked my national security team to assess the implications of the actions taken by the interim government and further steps that we may take as necessary with respect to the u.s./egyptian relationship. let me say that the egyptian people deserve better than what we've seen over the last several days. and to the egyptian people let me say the cycle of violence and escalation needs to stop. we call on the egyptian authorities to respect the universal rights of the people.

we call on those who are protesting to do so peacefully and condemn the attacks that we've seen by protesters including on churches. we believe that the state of emergency should be lifted, that a process of national reconciliation should begin, that all parties need to have a voice in egypt's future, that the rights of women and religious minorities should be respected and the commitments must be kept to pursue transparent reforms to the constitution and democratic elections of a parliament and a president. pursuing that path will help egypt meet the democratic aspirations of its people while attracting the investment, tourism and international support that can help it deliver opportunities to it citizens. violence, on the other hand, will only feed the cycle of polarization that isolates egyptians from one another and from the world and that continues to hamper the opportunity for egypt to get back on the path of economic

growth. let me make one final point. america cannot determine the future of egypt. that's a task for the egyptian people. we don't take sides with any particular party or political figure. i know it's tempting inside of egypt to blame the united states or the west or some other outside actor for what's gone wrong. we've been blamed by supporters of morsi, we've been blamed by the other side as if we are supporters of morsi. that a kind of approach will do nothing to help egyptians achieve the future that they deserve. we want egypt to succeed. we want a peaceful, democratic, prosperous egypt. that's our interest. but to achieve that, the egyptians are going to have to do the work.

we recognize that change takes time and that a process like this is never guaranteed. there are examples in recent history of countries that are transitioned out of a military government towards a democratic government, and it did not always go in a straight line, and the process was not always smooth. there are going to be false starts. there will be difficult days. america's democratic journey took us through some mighty struggles to perfect our union. from asia to the americas, we know that democratic transitions are measured not in months or even years, but sometimes in generations. so in the spirit of mutual interests and mutual respect, i want to be clear that america wants to be a partner in the egyptian people's pursuit of a better future. and we are guided by our national interests in this longstanding relationship. but our partnership must also

advance the principles that we believe in and that so many egyptians have sacrificed for these last several years. no matter what party or faction they belong to. so america will work with all those in egypt and around the world to support a future of stability that rests on a foundation of justice and peace and dignity. thank you very much. [inaudible conversations] martha: just want to hear be maybe he took a question there. it appears that he did not. the president speaking while the images of the battle that is going on between the forces of the muslim brotherhood in egypt and the military there. ambassador john bolton was listening along with us. what did you think of that statement, ambassador? >> well, after you wade through the platitudes of which there were a lot, the singlemost important thing i think he said was to place almost all of the blame for the current situation in egypt on the interim government, on the military.

he did criticize the muslim brotherhood attacks on coptic christian churches, that's true, but overwhelmingly he blamed the government. and as a reflection of that, can is selled the bright star -- canceled the bright star military exercise and said that his national security advisers were considering additional steps which i think is a thinly-veiled statement that he may cut off all military aid. so the president has put his thumb down on the scale on the side of the muslim brotherhood. this criticism of the egyptian government, i think, will resonate all over egypt, and it will not do us any good. martha: yeah. it is interesting, when he talked about how the military interim government is rolling back rights in egypt which has happened, there's opinion an emergency -- there's been an emergency situation put in place, and people cannot be move about as freely as they otherwise could, but you go back to the early stages of the muslim brotherhood government, and you look at the rollback of

rights that happened during that period which we didn't hear a whole lot from the administration at that time, did we? >> yeah. ask the over 100,000 coptic christians, at least 100,000 -- i think the number's higher -- who have fled egypt entirely. this is not an abstract debate about what the muslim brotherhood view on sharia law is. these coptic christians saw what was coming under a morsi government, and they left the country. moreover, the return to martial law just puts egypt back where it was for 30 years after the assassination of anwar sadat. no recognition at all by the president that the muslim brotherhood is not a regular political party as we understand that term. or that it was armed, perhaps 50 police, security forces killed in this violence yesterday, and absolutely no recognition that the brotherhood provoked this. martha: thank you very much, ambassador bolton. good to get your thoughts. >> thank you, martha.

bill: funk can key stuff in 2013 that is audio only, don't you think, and not a picture? martha: very. bill: why we did not get that initially, though, is a little confounding. martha: difficult technology, apparently, on martha's vineyard, but we're going to get the pictures shortly, we understand. bill: more guns turning up at crime scenes from fast and furious. how got there and what this reveals act the operation, next. [ male announcer ] it's the adt back to school savings event.

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with the fast alarm response of adt, with 24/7 monitoring against burglary, fire, and high levels of carbon monoxide starting at just over $1 a day. this is the computer that didn't get stolen, keeping priceless photos and financial records safe. this is the reason why. take advantage of adt's back to school savings. starting at $49 installed. adt. always there. offer ends soon. bill: okay, this is breaking news. new information now on fast and furious and that investigation. fox news confirming tree more weapons -- three more weapons have turned up at crime scenes. katie pavlich, news editor for town hall.com, and a fox news contributor with me on this. katie, good morning to you. >> good morning. will: crime scenes in mexico, what does this mean? >> we're seeing the results of the program. we've seen guns from fast and furious showing up at crime

scenes for a couple years now. this whole operation came to light after brian terry was killed in arizona, and weapons from fast and furious were left at the scene. this most recent case just shows there were 2500 illegal weapons at least trafficked into mexico, 1400 of those weapons are still miss, and the only way to find them now is when they show up at these crime scenes. who knows how many crimes they've been used in before they're recovered. bill: 1400 not tracked down? >> exactly. bill: senator grassley sent a letter to the department of justice. what was he looking for? >> so senator grassley has been investigating fast can furious and going back and forth with the department of justice on getting information about this program, and about a month ago he sent a letter directly to attorney general eric holder asking him why the justice department hadn't been disclosing these connections between fast and furious weapons and violent crimes in mexico, and the reason he sent that letter was because shortly before that we found out that a mistakes can police -- mexican

police chief was killed, and firearms that were left at the scene were part of the fast and furious program. so these guns are being used in crimes not only against mexican civilians, but against mexican public officials w. e saw the death of a mexican beauty queen last year, and so we're just seeing the very violent and fatal consequences of trafficking guns to narco terrorists. bill: in the beginning, the government denied this program existed, right? >> right. bill: and then it backtracked a little bit of knowledge using the strategy. what was it trying to do, do we believe? >> well, the government says that their goal was to send gun into mexico and track and trace them up the cartel system in order to get what they called the big fish of the cartel, in order to take down the cartel. their goal was to arrest the top leaders. but as we've found, they haven't been tracing and tracking these guns. instead, we've seen a lot of people killed, and as a result of fast and furious, the only people that have been arrested

are these low-level straw purchasers who atf and the justice department knew were criminals before this program even started. bill: you know, when you describe it that way, this thing's gone a long way before it unwinds, doesn't it? and then who's to say where it goes? >> yeah. exactly. and i actually wrote an swire book about fast and furious, kind of tying all these pieces together. because it's a very complicated issue. but the bottom line is that even attorney general eric holder who hasn't been willing to admit much when it comes to this program, he has said that we'll see death as a result of fast and furious for years and years to come, and that's a very unfortunate thing when you're talking about 1400 weapons still missing. bill: especially when you have 1400 missing. okay. the three guns were rifles, and they were purchased by a guy which goes back to may and june of -- may and july, rather, of 2010. this man apparently bought 700 guns while the atf was watching him.

>> right. bill: what was his intent? >> so his intent was to get weapons to cartels. he's working as an illegal straw buyer who is someone who buys guns for people who can't. so he was taking, buying these weapons. let's not forget that the gun dealership that was selling these guns wasn't doing it because they wanted to. lone wolf trading company was doing it under the direction of the bureau of alcohol, tobacco and firearms. so the dealership was selling these guns. atf told the dealership that he would be watched, he would be tracked down, these guns wouldn't go to mexico, and then the guns ended up in the mexico at these violent crime scenes we're seeing now and in the future. they watched the guy break the law over and over again with no arrests and no surveillance. bill: you mentioned brian terry, a beauty queen was found be dead, brian terry, the beauty queen incident with a mexican drug cartel, then you had an i.c.e. agent also in mexico,

jaime zapata, in february 2011, right? >> uh-huh, yeah. we've seen these cases come out yearly year. brian terry in 2010, jaime zapata was killed in 2011, this woman, susana more rest gamaz was killed in 2012, and now this pension can police chief killed in the summer of 2013, and that's only ones that are found at the crime scenes. criminals don't always leave those fast and furious weapons at the crimes they commit. bill: katie pavlich, thank you, out of washington, d.c., and we'll see whether or not in the end chuck grassley gets the answer he's looking for. thank you for your time. >> t martha: well, this is a story that just keeps surfacing. there's new outrage today over a presidential parody that happened at a state fair in missouri involving an obama mask and a rodeo clown. the naacp is now calling on the secret service to get involved and investigate this. has this all gone too far? send me a tweet

@marthamaccallum. we're going to have a fair and balanced debate on it coming up next. we'll be right back. right now, 7 years of music is being streamed. a quarter million tweeters are tweeting. and 900 million dollars are changing hands online. that's why hp built a new kind of server. one that's 80% smaller. uses 89% less energy. and costs 77% less. it's called hp moonshot. and it's giving the internet the room it needs to grow. this&is gonna be big.

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believe -- this is the naacp -- that the clown was, quote, inciting violence against the president be by saying this: >> and don't forget obama. and president obama, hey, i know i'm a clown. he's just running around acting like one, doesn't know he is one. [laughter] martha: you heard that, a little bit of laughter followed, and then the whole day went on. the rodeo clown, though, thicks did not go on for him. he's now been banned for life from the state fair which is, of course, a huge deal in missouri, and the president of the missouri rodeo cowboy association has submitted his resignation because he's afraid he's going to lose his job as the superintendent of the schools there. so the ramifications have been very widespread from this whole thing. let's bring in lars larsen and jehmu greene, fox news contributor. wow, my goodness. a lot of stuff going on as a result of all of this. who would have thought given the fact that we have seen, you

know, presidents and including hillary clinton te picketed in a very -- depicted in a very similar way with bulls chasing after them in a ring, lars, but the naacp would like a double investigation here. >> oh, come on, that's ridiculous. the naacp said this was an incitement of violence? do you know what's really going on here? the president is being mocked. every single president in american history has been mocked. go back and take a look at some of the things people said about lincoln or nixon or ford or both of the bushes and clinton as well. this guy just can't stand it. and do you know the quote that's going around today? c.s. lewis said above all else the devil cannot stand to be mocked. this is a president whose staff apparently believes he cannot be mocked, and if he is mocked, folks like the naacp will say you're suggesting violence. it was a rodeo clown. they're great. and there are a lot of rodeo clowns who have worn a lot of

masks of famous people like hillary and george w., and they didn't pitch a fit about it. i don't see why people are dick it on be-- are doing it on behalf of this president. martha: you're not calling the president the devil, right, lars? i just wanted to make it clear, if that's what you did. it's a comparison. >> it's a comparison. martha: so, jehmu, is this misguided on the part of the naacp? should they be concerned about other things? >> absolutely, it is misguided. look, the naacp has jumped the shark on this one. they do really great work in communities around the country, but this is, i agree with you, lars, it's ridiculous. i don't agree with you comparing the president to the devil, and i think that one of the issues we're facing is that, yes, you know, this isn't our first rodeo, as was said in that beautiful country song. this is not the first dog and

pony show when it comes to mocking presidents, when it comes to critiquing presidents, but the hypocrisy, martha, is on both sides. remember the dixie chicks and when there were so many conservatives who were like you can't say anything against president bush, we're going to smash your albums, you know? but liberals have to remember when game of thrones is decapitated george bush, they loved it. behind closed doors they were all cheering for it. come on, this is outrageous. martha: i mean, i happen to think that, you know, that it's in bad taste all around, most of these examples that you all are bringing up. we live in a free country, you have the right to do it, it's everybody's ability to sort of judge it and say, you know, i don't think that's the right thing to do -- >> well, now, hold on, martha -- martha: go ahead, lars. >> marla, listen, chevy chase made a whole career out of portraying gerald ford as being a clumsy klutz. he mocked the president. martha: i agree with you.

everybody agrees that the presidents get mocked, but it was a piece about health care was brought up, and she said, you know, he should have -- about the president, she said he should have the press office issue a release that says his reaction to finding out a rodeo clown was so what? he loves free speech including inevitably the decision -- >> yes. martha: and he also said -- the president should stand up and say don't fire this guy, don't be ridiculous, right? jehmu, why doesn't the president do that? >> he's too narcissistic to do that. >> i -- lars, come on now. >> he is. >> the president is in martha's vineyard, and he's looking at this situation, and he thinks it's ridiculous. but this president is also the most threatened president in the history of this country. >> oh, he is not, bush was -- martha: thank you, we're about to get caught off, guys. we'll see you next time. we'll be right back.

martha: continue the saga of the clown no doubt in coming days as well. a lot of news going on, obviously. very serious story in egypt. we'll be back. bill: catch you tomorrow. "happening now" starts right now. martha: bye, everybody. jon: we begin with a fox news alert on egypt. president obama announcing the united states is canceling joint military exercises with that nation because of violence there. the biennial bright star exercise is now scrapped the announcement cops a day after violence in cairo and other cities took more than 500 lives. supporters of the muslim brotherhood vowing to keep on fighting after police backed by bulldozers broke up two sit-in camps. we'll have a live report from the region in moments. first, brand new stories and breaking news. jenna: as jon was talking about the president reacts to the